Quick index:
[ Winter war begins - to aviation school | Continuation war and Curtiss squadron - covering the Pajari division | Hanko detachment - shitty job but someone had to do it | Taking Suursaari island - live broadcast of an aerial combat | Squadron 32 moves to Nurmoila on Aunus isthmus | New Curtisses from bombed up Germany | Second trip to fetch Curtisses - red champagne | Soviet Union begins the offensive on Aunus isthmus '44 | The war ends, era of Myrsky begins | To Aero in 1948 - from DC-3s to Convairs and Finnair's technical director | Finnair's plane purchases - trip to Moscow - Tupolev test flight | Caravelle period starts - wonders of autopilot | Inertial navigation | Questions from the audience
Questions from virtual pilots:
Questions from virtual pilots | Tracers, ammo and simulator questions | Curtiss Hawks and Myrskys | Curtiss questions from the audience | Experiences with different plane types | Experiences with I-16 | Final comments |
Credits]

Jarl "Kille" Arnkil joined Finnish Air Force in 1939. After the war Kille transferred to Aero, later Finnair in 1948 and continued there until his retirement in 1972. After that he worked as a senior inspector of flight operations in National Board of Aviation 1973-1979.

This article is a transcript of a lecture given by Jarl Arnkil in Tampere Ilmasilta 16.4.2002. Topic was "Curtiss and other nice planes"

In May 2003 the article was updated with additional discussions which we had 6.11.2002 while proofreading the original article. The additions are either in the middle of the original text or in the end under topic "Questions from virtual pilots".

Recording and transcription of the lecture: Jukka "Grendel" Kauppinen
Transcriptions of 6.11.2002 discussions:
Part 1. Petri Hallberg
Part 2: Joonas Konttinen

English translation: Petri Hallberg

Article proofread by Jarl Arnkil.
 

I started my pilot career in July 1938 at cadet course. In summer 1939 when the general mobilization begun 13.10.1939. The older class went directly to active duty and us, the younger class stayed in Munkkiniemi (Helsinki). We were the last class to study in the old cadet school in Munkkiniemi.

30.11. the air raid alarms went off and we of course rushed outside to see what was going on. First bombers were coming over Helsinki and towards Munkkiniemi. One plane was sinking and we of course started firing rapid-fire rifles and other guns we had outside and were very proud when we hit the plane. At first we thought that the plane would hit the tower of cadet school, but it went over it and crashed to the school sports field. And that was about it. The whole crew was killed in the crash.

After that episode the war began. Younger class packed the cadet school into train cars and we went north. In Kauhava we went through the second year training program. Our course ended 31.12. and we were promoted to Second Lieutenants. We stayed in Kauhava, though.

We spent the Winter War like this until the end of February when we transferred to Parola, reinforcement flight regiment 2. There we all started to fly more. There were some foreign guys, some could already fly, some were mechanics and some fainted on takeoff etc.

We got into Flying Squadron 24 and immediately after the winter war was over we went to Joensuu and started fighter training. If I remember correctly, there were seven men from our cadet course. When the training ended, we flew the planes to Tampere for maintenance. From Tampere we took a train to flying squadron 32 in Siikakangas. There were no buildings ready, just a round field with heath.

We continued training for 13 months in Siikakangas. Over one hundred trainees came there from Kauhava basic course. The fighter training was flown with Fokker D.XXI.
 

In the summer we were mobilized again. We installed guns to the planes and adjusted them. Our squadron, number 32, was moved to Hyvinkää airfield. We had these old Fokkers with Mercury engines, if I remember correctly we had 12 of them. Overall there were 24, but the rest were being overhauled. During wartime we had three flights, each with 12 planes. The squadron commander was Captain Heinilä. Leader of the first flight was Captain Berg, Kullervo Lahtela was the leader of the second flight and Aulis Bremer of the third.

The first aerial victory was achieved when we flew from Hyvinkää. Our mission was to protect Helsinki area and the railroad between Helsinki and Riihimäki. My classmate Veikko Ervinen encountered a group of nine enemy planes if I remember correctly and he shot two of them down. One of them fell near Malmi and the other fell into sea.

After that we were transferred to Utti and there we received an order from the air force commander that we would receive Curtisses from squadron 14 and we would give them our Fokkers. This way we got a little better war equipment. The Curtisses were received from war booty stock in Germany. They were American planes that had been sent to western front but when the Germans occupied the area they fell into German hands and were then sold to Finland. We got even more of them in the summer but I'll talk about that later.

From Utti we moved to Lappeenranta airfield and that was very close to the interim peace border. When we stopped there we had to take off with a climbing turn over the town so that we would not cross the front line too low.

From there we started to follow the advance of Colonel Pajari's 12th division in the Karelian Isthmus sot that one flight leader was always with the front line. He had a radio station in a truck so that he could talk with the base and our planes. Twice a day we were given a "silent flight" in which the liaison officer gave the coordinates of current front line. It was not a flying mission, just a briefing about the current location of the front line. Our job was to cover the advance of Pajari division, fly reconnaissance missions and attack ground targets. That kept us busy. That better Curtiss with bigger engine had two machine guns in fuselage and four in wings, two in each wing. At first they were all small caliber guns but later one 12,7 mm gun was installed to the fuselage and then another. They were quite nice for strafing trains, trucks and columns. It was sort of hunting.

When we turn the map (map of theatre of operations in Karelian isthmus). The whole isthmus was a target. When Pajari crossed Vuoksi river the air force commander gave an order to our squadron, squadron 24 and Moranes to cover the crossing. Joppe Karhunen came with Brewsters to Lappeenranta and Moranes flew from Immola. There always had to be eight planes above them during daylight. The bunch that was above could not leave before the next one arrived.

This way we covered the crossing for five days. And the division got across without any disturbances. If I remember correctly we shot down eight planes while protecting the crossing.

Then Pajari's advance stopped and Lagus division came across Lihaniemi to the west side of Viipuri. So called Porlammi motti (encirclement) was born. Billion dollar motti. We were ordered to attack the trapped enemy with all we had so that they would not be able to escape. One flight went in to strafe the enemy. They were met with murderous anti-aircraft fire. Two planes were hit and one of the pilots was wounded. The enemy was defeated anyway and they started to flee southeast towards Koivisto. We were supposed to attack the enemy but own and enemy troops were mixed and moving fast. The ground attack missions were stopped when we could not tell apart the enemy from our own troops.

The Soviet 23rd army was the one that was encircled. When the battle was over we found 306 artillery pieces, 248 mortars, 272 machine guns, 55 armored cars, 623 trucks, 300 tractors and 4500 horses. We got 9000 prisoners including the commander of 23rd army, General Kirpitsnikov and counted 7000 dead. 6000 of the russkies were captured when the pocket collapsed. Some had gotten away, though. They had left all their weapons and their dead behind and fled for their life towards Koivisto. This offensive ended 23.9. when we reached the old border, in some places we went even further. The lines were straightened. They went through Lempaalajärvi. The last aerial combat our squadron fought occurred 23.9. above Valkeasaari. Pate (Paavo Berg) was there with eight Curtisses and shot down seven Russians. During whole offensive our squadron scored 30 victories. On September 23rd we moved to Suulajärvi, which was an airfield built by Russians. We transferred there and stayed there until next spring.
 

Then the air force commander gave a strong order. Hanko detachment with eight Curtisses was established. The order was to destroy the targets requested by ground forces, destroy the 20 fighters Russians had in Hanko area with strafing and bomb attacks. You know it was dangerous and ineffective to shoot planes at airfields that had terrible anti-air defenses. Reconnaissance squadron 6 had experience of strong ack inside Hanko encirclement capable of shooting up to 5000 meters.

Captain Berg, the flight leader, planned this thing so that we should lure the enemy planes up and out of their ack cover. He led a plane pair to circle the Hanko encirclement. We had one ground radio station there too, and Kyösti "Kössi" Karhila was there. He saw one I-153 taking off and informed Pate (Paavo Berg). 1st Lieutenant Aimo Euramo took off with four planes 10 minutes after Pate. They planned to use radios to talk about where the enemy was and what should be done. However, Euramo was unable to contact Berg with radio. Berg saw one enemy plane flying low. At the same time Russians started to send more planes up after Berg. As Berg shot the lone plane down, also his plane took a hit from ack and crashed to sea. Karhila witnessed two planes crashing from his position at the ground station.

There was another occasion when one of our planes fell. Then it ended. On December 3rd the encirclement was found to be empty. The guys came to Suulajärvi and said. "Shitty job but someone had to do it." Can't argue with that.
 

Then we went for Suursaari.

General Pajari (he had been promoted to General) gave an order on 17.3. Commander of Flight regiment 3, Colonel Einari Nuotio was ordered to take part in Suursaari campaign. The orders were: deny airspace from enemy aircraft, cover bombers of flight regiment 4 when necessary and from 18.3. onwards protect troop transfers, railroads, traffic centers and airbases on Karelian Isthmus. I think that's a lot of work for just 14 Curtisses. To protect whatever is moving on Karelian Isthmus. Anyway, we set up a radio station in Haapasaari, where Lieutenant Euramo was keeping us informed about enemy plane movements. Our squadron had 24 pilots and 12 planes and they were divided to two schwarms with six planes each. Also the pilots were divided to groups of six. This way we could always send six or twelve planes up when needed.

On 26.3. Pajari's troops started to advance from Kotka. The area had been prepared so that roads had been ploughed down to this point (pointing a location on the map) and to this point sideways. Trucks and horses were used on this 10 kilometers distance. The troops were here at 20:45, grouped there and started to advance by skis towards this point at 22:00. They reached this point on 27th at 1:30. Lieutenant Colonel Sotisaari was here 4:30 when the attack began. During the first day of combat operations, the advance, the weather was so poor that neither the enemy nor our planes were in the air. But on 27th when the troops came down here, then the weather cleared in the evening and Captain Bremer's Curtiss-schwarm encountered four enemy fighters to the southeast of Suursaari. Two were shot down and two escaped into the fog.

After Suursaari was taken 28.3. we were told that Pajari would organize a parade in the harbor area of Suurkylä. All troops from Suursaari battle were grouped there and we went to cover them with all our planes. Lieutenant Nurminen led the first six Curtisses, I led the other six. Nurminen was at about 3500 meters over Suursaari and I was below him. I flew over Pajari's booth as he was speaking. You tend to notice the noise Curtiss makes as it flies directly overhead. As I was turning we heard that 29 enemy fighters were approaching from south in three groups. Nurminen was already heading to Suulajärvi but he turned back. Over Suursaari and east and southeast side they (Russians) started to turn in Spanish wheel (Lufbery circle) and the fight went on for about twenty- thirty minutes. We shot down 23 planes and none of us saw Russians fire any shots. (Editor's note: This seems to be exaggeration, all Curtisses had received hits, although with only minor damage. Source: Finland's Aviation Historical Magazine issue 3/1994).

When we discussed the incident later, we came to a conclusion that these had been young boys who had just came here and were overwhelmed and in real trouble. But those guys who had been on Karelian Isthmus front, they were top class fighter pilots. They had probably acquired their skills while fighting against the Germans. They were in a totally different class from these guys we fought in Suursaari.

By the way, there was a Finnish Broadcasting Company radio reporter in Suursaari. He did a live broadcast from the parade and my wife happened to be sitting by the radio at home with our first-born child, a little over one month old daughter on her lap. She was listening to the program from Suursaari and the aerial battle. They kept saying "and another plane fell, and a plane fell again" but they didn't say if they were enemy planes or ours. My wife thought that probably the Finns were staying in the sky while the Russians didn't. The army reported that they had counted 27 kills but the count in the official report was 23. I flew there with sergeant Tähti the next day and there were 23 wreck piles on the ice. By the way, Veikko Lavi has recorded a song about this Suursaari battle and you can buy that on C-cassette named "The guilty and the innocent". The song ends like this: "The parade was held on ice. The men could also witness it, pilots above Suursaari, crowned the conquest. 27 planes went to their death, the red star fell, leaving only a hole in ice."

Editor's note:
According to official records Jarl Arnkil shot down one and a half Russian planes in the "Suursaari skirmish":
28.3. Lt J. Arnkil - CU-556 - shot down 1 I-153
28.3. Lt J. Arnkil - CU-556 - shot down 1/2 I-153
 

The Karelian village of Nurmoila today. Photos: Esa Anttikoski / kuvia Karjalasta.

It was terrible mud. The roads had no bottom in springtime when it had rained and the snow was melting. It was truly crappy. Then a railroad was built there, all the way to Aunus. It had to be repaired many times because of damage by frost. The trains were crawling, but at least they moved.

The mission of our squadron in Aunus was to repel enemy aircraft, to cover own troops and bombers occasionally operating in the area. Secondary assignments were reconnaissance and light bombing. I wonder this Rekola's order about bombing, since I never saw even one bomb during the war. Own bombs I mean. Our operational area was the whole Syväri front from Ääninen to the mouth of Syväri and from there following the shoreline to Valamo. Quite an objective for a small Curtiss group.

At the end of June Rekola gave an order to do daily ground reconnaissance, and Curtisses were used on recce flights deep into the enemy's rear all the way to Tihvinä. The distance was about 100 kilometers. First we noticed heavy Pe-2 activity in Aunus. They hadn't been seen in the Karelian isthmus at all, but they moved quite a lot in Aunus. It was a tricky plane for us, because Curtiss wasn't fast enough for it and also the weapons were a bit too light. When a Pe-2 pilot pushed the stick forward a bit and throttled up, he could escape. They lost us. Then there were also I-16 and I-153 types, which we had already seen in Suursaari and Karelian isthmus. In Aunus isthmus we began to see also MiGs and LaGGs. By 1942 our squadron had 171 kills. Our own losses were 6 CUs in aerial combat, four in accidents, five pilots in combat and four in accidents.
 

In the summer of 1943 we got 15 more Curtisses from the war booty stock of Germany. They had been in packing crates somewhere in the west coast of France. When the Germans occupied France they found 15 of these packing crates. They were sent to Wuppertahl, the former twin town of Elberfelt-Barmen in the valley of Wupper river. We went there to get the first five planes. Captain Lahtela and four pilots. First we flew with "Hanssin Jukka" to Berlin and from there we traveled by train to Wuppertahl. It had been bombed badly a few days earlier. When we came to the town, which is built to the slopes of the river valley, we could see through all of the buildings. We arrived with our bags, parachutes and backpacks. There was only one man in the train station platform. We asked him if there was a bus going to the airplane factory. "Nein, alles kaput." Everything was broken. Then we asked if we could get a taxi. "No, they are all broken." "Well how can we get there?" "By foot."

Then we asked how far the factory was. The man told us it was about two to three kilometers. It was a hot day and with all that gear we got very hot. Well, we got to the factory. They gave us a friendly welcome and some nimble Flight Master had grabbed a couple of bottles of brandy with him. He found some cups somewhere and we started to socialize. We heard that we couldn't get any planes from here, because they had no airfield there. There was only a grass field from which they started. There was also a railroad from with power lines across the field. The planes would be flown to Düsseldorf by test pilots. Since we couldn't fly, we started boozing.

The Flight Master circled around the crowd with a big cup. First there was a young German test pilot with us and after a while the chief test pilot came to us too. In there I understood German better than I did in school and I heard the younger test pilot warning the chief test pilot that "those Finns are so tough that they drink Cognac like water". We continued to Düsseldorf and noticed that it hadn't been bombed at all. It was totally intact and it was a beautiful city. We got accommodated in a local motel. Then the factory pilots told us they would fly some training flights with us. We tried to explain that we wouldn't need any training, that we could fly and wanted to take off already. We put together a downright air show above the airfield, did some air combat maneuvers against each other etc. When we landed they agreed that we wouldn't have to be taught to fly, that we could do it already. Then we flew these five Curtisses to Berlin. We were given a pretty complicated route to follow. We marked it on our maps with our call signs, which were then used for the rest of the war. The planes had no radios and the maximum altitude was 300 meters. From Düsseldorf we first flew west to some point, which was the edge of flying area. From there we headed over Bremen and after that we zigzagged to Berlin. There were areas where barrage balloons were always up. Then there were areas where any plane would be shot at. It was a pretty hard route to follow but we made it. We refueled there and then continued to Königsberg where we spent the night. The next day we flew via Malmi to Halli.
 

We headed back immediately to get the next five planes with the same group. Only the leader was somebody else. This time Aulis Bremer led us. Between our trips Düsseldorf had been flattened. It was a miserable city to walk in because all the buildings had collapsed to the streets. There was just a small path to walk on. We made a trip with the chief test pilot of the factory up Rein river. We went to see the cathedral of Köln while there was a mass going on. Then we continued up river to Asmanchhausen on the east bank of Rein. He knew a place there from where you could get good food at night. To our disappointment the place was already closed but the staff was still there and they said they would find some food for us. We got some sandwiches but we did not get any warm food. Then the master said that they had some pretty good champagne in the basement. Red champagne made in Asmanchhausen. They brought up some bottles they were empty in a moment. After that we wrote down the address and ate in the same place the next day.

The next day we looked for the wine factory so that we could buy some of that wine. We found the place and were staring at the sign on the street when a man came to us and asked what we were looking for. We said we were looking for the owner of that business. "Well, that's me" he said and took us inside. We praised the champagne a lot and he said that we should look at the other wines in the stock first. There were very long tunnels inside the mountain with racks full of wine bottles. At the end of the tunnel there was a mould stained old wine bottle. He took it with him to the office and we started to enjoy this very old wine. Then we could buy three bottles of the red champagne. I planned to take it home with me.

The flight to Finland took about 10 hours.

We went by train to Düsseldorf where we were accommodated in officer's quarters. All the officers were on the eastern front. In the middle of the night I woke up to what I thought was bomb explosions. At first they seemed to be closing and I thought they were coming towards us, but then I noticed that the sound came from the same source each time. We put on our clothes and went outside. They had a four-barrel synchronized anti-air battery at the end of the building. The house was built on rock and also the synchronized battery was on it. Every time the four barrels went off at the same time the house shook. We were standing there in blue suits and hats when shrapnel was flying around. Some guy with a helmet came to us and said "goddamnit guys, you can't stand here above the ground, run downstairs." We ran to their fire control centre.

There was a huge number of allied planes above. Someone said between 700 and one thousand planes. They were bombing Köln from where we had just came from. After they had dropped their bombs, they turned left and flew right over Düsseldorf heading for home. Every now and then one of them was hit and dove straight down. After this we started took off for Berlin. I flew wing for Aulis Bremer and wondered when he took a completely wrong heading. Since I knew where we should go I flew in front of him and turned towards Berlin. During the last five minutes I lost sight of Rangsdorff airfield and I couldn't find it. Then Flight Master Ikonen flew in front of me and showed me where it was. We landed in Rangsdorff, got fuel and continued to Königsberg and from there to Malmi and Kuorevesi.
 

We had no certain information about the beginning of Russian offensive, but we heard movement in the other side all the time. Especially on the Karelian Isthmus they were constantly waiting for something to happen. But the biggest mistake was that the reconnaissance photos were lying on someone's desk. Aikku (Aimo Juhola) said that reconnaissance flights were flown. Aikku personally flew many photographic recce flights behind the lines. The photos were sent to ground forces. They were unanalyzed maps and photos, but they showed clearly what was going on. When the photos were sent to some artillery commander, he just filed them.
 

If we continue about the war on Aunus isthmus. Soviet Union began it's offensive across Syväri on 21.6. They built pontoon bridges across the Syväri river. We had seen the pontoon equipment on reconnaissance flights, but they were not destroyed. Finns blew up the dam of Syväri power plant and the water took out at least the first pontoon bridges.

I was the last one to leave Nurmoila airfield, because Rekola had assigned me as an intelligence officer. They told me that I was an unusual fighter pilot because I could read map. So I was assigned as an intelligence officer for the rest of the war. The others went to Uomaa. The third flight led by Captain Evinen had moved to Vitele airfield on the eastern side of lake Ladoga. The attack began on the next day and Russians started to come over Syväri. Two sea brigades came from the south to Ladoga with torpedo gunboats and went north. They went in a kind of echelon, one in the front and another a little behind. We wondered where they were going. Evinen was in Vitele airfield with his planes and this convoy turned right and dashed for the shore to make a landing in Vitele. Rekola quickly ordered Evinen's flight to fly to Huomaa and also others started to move. This landing cut both the railroad and the main road, because they were side by side. The railroad had been built by Finns on frozen ground and the ride wasn't too comfortable when we used it on our leaves. A heavy railroad artillery battery had been moved from there to Karelian isthmus just a couple of days before. There were only a few old Finnish cannons left and they couldn't do anything to the attacking force. They (Russians) had a terrible firepower.

Then Rekola went on leave and Lieutenant Colonel Moilanen became the regiment commander and chief of staff. I've heard that he got a call from the commander of 6th army corps and told that the ground forces had noticed another convoy heading north on Ladoga. They had to be strafed. As he left Rekola had ordered that there must be no ground attacks against the landing forces, because it would cause more harm than good. But Moilanen thought the order came from the commander of air force through general staff of the armed forces. He ordered one flight to attack. Captain Lahtela was the squadron commander at that time. At first the commander had been Ehrnrooth, then Major Lauri Bremer. When Bremer was transferred to other duties on Karelian isthmus during the retreating phase of '44, Kullervo Lahtela became the new commander. Lahtela said that he would go. Captain Evinen said that his flight hadn't flown in many days, so he should go.

Well, they argued for a while and in the end Evinen left. He took off with eight planes. The first schwarm lead by Evinen, the other by Alapuro. They strafed the convoy and pulled up, then went in for another strafing round. The guys kept shooting until they ran out of ammo. Evinen got hit in the process. Alapuro noticed that Evinen was flying in as strange direction. Then the guys saw that his propeller was winding down and he dropped his landing gear. Then the gear came up again. Evinen landed (plane CU-581) in the amongst some tree stumps and was injured badly. He was sent to Salmi hospital but he died the next day. We lost also another pilot that day - shot down (Pentti Virtalahti, CU-562). It was a sad day.

But Moilanen certainly wasn't praised when Rekola got back and heard what had happened. If I remember correctly, he was dismissed, transferred out of the regiment hastily. By the way, army headquarters was then nearby and at that time Major Rantasaari was the intelligence officer. We had daily discussions where we exchanged information. We had very few Curtisses left and Rekola had said that we should avoid dogfights so that we could help the ground forces with reconnaissance flights. Even the reconnaissance flights could be done only by using one really low flying plane pair and another pair above them keeping an eye for enemy planes. Almost all enemy planes operating in that area at that time were cannon-equipped, Airacobras etc.

One day, I think they were Airacobras, were covering an armored division east of Vitele. They were cramped in a narrow spot on a road running on top of a ridge. A deep river ran across the road in a canyon and the bridge had been blown away when we retreated. There were about 30 to 40 tanks standing and wondering what to do. They could not get forward or turn around in that tight spot. Of course they started to build bridges to get across. We called the air force headquarters (Colonel Gabrielsson was the air commander on the isthmus) and every other place so that we could get some bombers to drop a few bombs on the first and last tanks so that the column would have been stuck there. But we couldn't get any bombs there. We also thought about Kuhlmey, but they were too busy on the Karelian isthmus so that they couldn't get there. So they got to build their bridge and tanks got across the river. They wrecked a lot of havoc moving on the Aunus isthmus. It would have been enough to make just one sortie. 30 to 40 tanks there.

One operation devised by Major Rantasaari was one where we had to bring orders of the commander of army corps to our unit whose whereabouts were unknown. There were no communications available and they didn't know how to get on our side of the lines. I asked how we were supposed to do this and he said that they were writing a few copies of the orders on paper strips and we should put them in a bottle and drop them to certain locations. That's how our boys went to take the orders to them. We added five meters of dressing cloth on the bottles.

I told them that our regiment should be in that area, make some low passes there and if you see a Finnish-looking guy coming out of the bushes with a pistol holster in his belt, drop the commander's orders there. We took five or six of these messages around Aunus isthmus. For example there was one of my cadet buddies, Esko Mäntylä, amongst the regiment and he told me that they received the message from the headquarters, thanks a lot. It had instructions of how to get back to our own side from behind the lines and everyone got out. One day Major Rantasaari called me and told that there was a group of men stuck there and they have no food or ammo. He asked if we could take some supplies to them. I said that we would have to get some parachutes but he said that they wouldn't be needed. Just kick the stuff out of the hatch. I said OK and called the transport squadron. Olli Kepsu was flying a Heinkel hydroplane from Uomaa airfield and there were also three "pikkujunnu" planes (Junkers W 43). The army corps started to haul stuff with trucks to Uomaa airfield and the guys started to fly it to Russian side. The lads said that whenever they pushed a crate of butter out of the plane, it made a slippery spot on ground. And when a package of sugar broke midair the guys on the ground tried to catch it. They also dropped crispbread and other things. They flew many round trips that night. Then they started to haul ammo. I told them to drop them a little further and not directly over the catchers. When the crates would thud on the ground, the ground troops would know what was dropped, that it wasn't crispbread anymore. The freight flights continued through the night and it got lighter. I told Olli Kepsu not to go anymore. He said: "No, I'll make one more trip. There is one load that should be taken there." He left and some fighter caught him. Luckily there was some haze and Olli could shake him there. There were shreds of fabric hanging from his wings when he came and landed on Uomaanjärvi. He taxied the plane to shore so that he could get the floats out of the water. "Get me some gas quick, so that I can get to Huuratjärvi before those floats fill up with water." And then he left.

Jussi knows more about the situation on Karelian isthmus. On 20.6. Lieutenant Colonel Kuhlmey's dive bombing group came with 33 Stukas, 50 Focke-Wulf 190 A-6s and eight Focke-Wulf 190 Jabos. Fighter-bombers. And they wrecked havoc on the Karelian isthmus. They carried 600-700 kg bombs. There was heavy fighting in Vuoksi during the retreating phase. The Russians were constantly building new bridges, but whenever they got one almost ready, a Stuka came and blew it to pieces. It took a long time to get troops across. And there was always a traffic jam waiting on the other side.

Another tough spot was Ihantala. Tali-Ihantala is a 10 kilometers wide isthmus between lakes. There were 86000 Russian soldiers with artillery and tanks. The 14th division. Our artillery had a lot of firepower there. 240 artillery pieces could be pointed to an area of just one hectare. You can imagine the body count when artillery opened up on a troop concentration. They couldn't even fit standing in one line, they had to make about eight lines (laughing). Does anyone know the Russian and our own casualty numbers during the Russian offensive in continuation war? I tell you that when 240 artillery pieces fire on one hectare... 60000 Russians were killed or wounded in Tali-Ihantala.

Kuhlmey's detachment (Kyösti Karhila's notes)

Arrived in Immola 16.6.1944
Joint operations with Finnish Air Force. The commander of air corps on Karelian isthmus was Colonel Lorenz.
Equipment:
Stuka Ju-87 - 30 planes
Engine 1420 hp Jumo 211, max bomb load 1800 kg.
From Immola 700 kg = 1 x 500 kg + 4 x 50 kg
2 x 20 mm cannons, 2 x 13 mm mg, observer has 2 x 7.9 mm mg
1200 sorties, 540000 kg of bombs, vertical dive bombing.
Focke Wulf 190-A fighter - 30 planes
Engine 1400 hp, speed 645 km/h, 4 x 20 mm cannons, 2 x 13 mm mg
1000 sorties, 126 kills
Focke Wulf 190 JABO
Speed 645 km/h, 2 x 20 mm cannons, 2 x 13 mm mg
500 sorties, 23000 kg of bombs, dive angle 45 degrees
Altogether Kuhlmey's detachment dropped 770000 kg of bombs. The bombs had cardboard whistles attached to their tails, producing nasty whistles with different pitches when the bombs were dropped. Kuhlmey's detachment operated from Immola for five weeks and they left as quickly and inconspicuously as they came, didn't leave any reports or papers.
The liaison officer was Jussi Laakso.
Losses of Kuhlmey detachment:
41 planes
30 pilots killed
25 pilots wounded
4 Stukas, five FW 190s destroyed and 15 other planes damaged when Immola was bombed. 1215 bombs were dropped in the attack on Immola.

The bombing sorties of Tali-Ihantala (Jarl Arnkil's notes)

On 1.7. our signals intelligence found out the enemy's attack grouping and the starting time of the attack. Attack of our own bombers and Kuhlmey's dive-bombers were concentrated to 2 minutes before the reported starting time of the Russian attack. Artillery concentrated their combined fire to the enemy attack grouping. Commander of soviet 21st army, General Gusev reported: our attack was thwarted by hundreds of planes and overwhelming artillery fire. The size of the attacking force was 14 divisions. The overall casualties in Ihantala were 60000 dead or wounded.

They used the same Nenonen's system both in Tali-Ihantala and Vuosalmi. With that system all batteries could change their target with one correction. At times 240 guns were pounding an area of just one hectare. They could use code words like "aurinko" (sun) in the system and with Nenonen's array that was enough for all to aim the guns again.
 

We had to leave Uomaa 4.7. The HQ of first flight regiment moved to Sortavala's Kasinhäntä, an ex sea plane base. Curtisses moved to Mensuvaara and later also Morane squadron moved there. The next day, 5.7. Lieutenant Jaakko Hillo was hit by ack. His leg was broken and he made an emergency landing to Uomaa airfield. Both the plane and pilot survived. He was taken to the hospital and also the plane could be repaired to flying condition.

17.7. we got some Blenheims from Värsilä to Mäntyvaara. They were received by the third flight of 12th squadron. Before that they had only had reconnaissance planes. Then 7-8.7. the Air Force headquarters moved the first flight of 26th squadron under 1st flight regiment. At the time 26th had Brewsters because 24th squadron had got Messerschmitts. (Editor's note: After 24th squadron had received Messerschmitt fighters the older Brewsters were given to 26th squadron).

VL Myrsky

1-10.8. we got new Myrsky planes to Mensuvaara. 12th squadron received them and the pilots had already went through type training. 28.8 the first group of Myrskys led by Major Tuominen and captain Virkkunen took off.

Then the Aunus group and headquarters together organized a large bombing raid with all available bombers to the south side of Nietjärvi lake and Uomaa road. Bombing raids were flown 14th, 15th and 16th of July and all the available fighters of flight regiment one were covering them. Well, then on September 9th the cease-fire came and we moved to Joroinen and from there to Rantasalmi, Mikkeli and the headquarters from Kasinhäntä to Joroinen. In the end 32nd squadron and the regiment HQ moved to Vesivehmaa and finally ended up in Pori.

During the whole war 32nd squadron got 199 aerial victories and reconnaissance squadron 12 six. 1st flight regiment existed between 2.5.1942-4.9.1944. It was only established in May 1942. The regiment's losses were 20 planes of which 12 were shot down and eight lost to anti-aircraft fire. 32nd squadron lost 10 pilots, one as a POW, Captain Nurminen. Reconnaissance squadron 12 lost five planes and five pilots on sorties, one man was killed during Nurmoila bombing raid. Sergeant Narkaus, the officer in charge was walking with a bicycle in cold weather. An R-5, so-called "särsär" dropped small bombs here and there and he was caught in between. One fell in front of him, one behind. 32nd squadron became the 11th squadron and 13th squadron was established in Pori of the men of 12th and 16th squadrons.
 

In 1948 I went to Aero's copilot course. That was the first time fighter pilots were accepted to Aero's copilot courses. Before that they had all been bomber pilots. Lasse Räty and Veikko Härmälä who were flying a route to Pori where we were based at that time started to talk me into moving to Aero. And eleven of us went to the courses, because Aero had acquired DC-3s. They needed two pilots to all of them. Before that they had flown only "Junnus" and Dragon Rapids.

Well, I went to the copilot course and flew few years as a copilot, after which I was promoted to a captain of DC-3. Then Convairs were bought in from USA. Kalle Temmes was the instructor of Convair course. I've never been on any better or more thorough course than the one Kalle gave us. He had very good diagrams and he was able to explain complicated topics in a simple way. I filled two hard-cover notebooks during that course, I wrote notes and drew diagrams. My notebook was used on Convair courses for many years. Whenever some new guy came into the company, he came to ask: "I heard that you have good lecture notes, can I have a look?"

In the end of this course there was an exam. We had a lot of exams and factory's question sheets were used. In the end we had an exam with 100 questions, factory question sheet, and I answered correctly to 93 percent of the questions. I had had 100 percent correct answers in all of the previous exams and also the technical people started asking me for advice in technical matters. So, I was appointed as the technical director, the missing link between pilots and the technical department.
 

I got to know the engineers very well. Then we acquired the Caravelles, but before they were bought, we thought what planes should we get after Convair. We had many discussions about where we should buy the planes, from east or from the west. Well, they sent a party to Moscow, in January to inspect Russian planes during cold winter. I flew one, I think it was Tupolev 134 if I remember the type number correctly. The one with a glass nose where sturmovik lies on his belly in the glass nose and two pilots sit higher above. I got a ride but they wouldn't let me in the controls during the start, they couldn't let a Finn do that.

When the guys took of I noticed that they had two guys pulling at the steering column like hell. I don't know if the copilot looked at the direction where captain was pulling and followed him, or did they steer at different directions. We got airborne and I got to the copilot seat. It was no wonder that they needed two men pulling, it was really stiff. It had no powered controls at all, no hydraulics or anything, just direct cables.

We climbed a little higher and I tried some turns. It was stiff. Then I slowly pulled the other throttle, lifted the nose and thought that I would test the stall characteristics. When I pulled a steeper curve the captain opened the throttles and told that it was not allowed to stall Aeroflot planes. After an hour of flying we landed and that was quite an experience. We came in low with huge amount of throttle. And again two men were busy fighting the controls. Flaps were extended. The last flaps were under the belly of the plane and they were used only just before the runway threshold. Then we touched down with a lot of speed. Well, it did stop before the end of runway.

After the flight they asked for comments. I started to criticize the stiff controls. "Yes, Aeroflot's pilots like to feel how hard their work is." This was their explanation.

In the evening we went to a restaurant with the secretary of foreign trade. We had Heikki Paasonen, Finnair's representative in Moscow, with us. He spoke many languages fluently. He advised us as we went to the table. There were a lot of things on the table including vodka and white wine. The host said: "Take those white wine bottles away. Nobody is going to drink wine anyway." Heikki told us: "Listen, lads. The glasses are always filled to the brim and whenever complimenting someone or thanking for something, you drink it to the bottom. Then it will be filled again." The bosses complimented each other for a long time and I thought that things would not end well. I noticed that the Russians were all the time eating black bread without butter. I told others that it was the secret. That was the way to reduce the effect of alcohol. We started to chew the bread too and in the end Heikki Paasonen said that it had been an unusual evening - we had been able to walk out.

Then I flew Jak-42, when a bigger version came out in 1977. It was the latest model at that time. It was a bit niftier plane than the Tupolev. They had copied some features from western planes. But we didn't buy them.

Tupolev 134, although a passenger plane, feels a lot like a war plane. It has a huge difference to normal airliners. And the landing was really done in a way that made me feel we would run out of runway, that the plane would not stop in time.

- What do you think would have happened if you had stalled the Tupolev? Were the stalling characteristics hopeless or what?

Well, they didn't let me stall the plane.

- It was well phrased that it had a sturmovik in the nose. It wasn't that long ago when there was a news discussion about why the plane had a glass nose. Was it a place for bomber, navigator or spy?

It was for navigator, but originally for bomber.
 

Since we didn't buy these Tupolevs, we got Caravelles. And when the first Caravelle flew in for introduction in Helsinki airport, we went for a test flight. Olli Puhakka took me for a ride and we both flew the plane. At first I wondered how things would go, but then I thought that if Russians had learned to fly jets, Finns should be able to do it too.

We made several landings. It was a "Steam-Caravelle" (Caravelle 3), which had no thrust reverser but a brake chute. It was a very nice plane. It had hydraulic controls to every direction and you could steer it using just two fingers. You didn't need to wrestle with the controls.

Caravelle 6 had reversers. They were used at least by the Portugese and we flew them too. We loaned one Portugese Caravelle 6 when Caravelle threes were given away and tens were replacing them. Then we flew a Caravelle 6 between Helsinki and Frankfurt. When the brake chute was used we released it after landing and the airport personnel packed it.

After we got the Caravelles and started flying them, we noticed that the plane had a very good autopilot. DC-3 had some sort of an autopilot too, but the one in Caravelle, made by Lea Sieglet had no moving parts at all. It was fully electronic. All the others were full of cogwheels and so on. Engineer Leiviskä, my pal from the technical staff, was once in Toulouse taking care of these plane purchases and found out that they were planning to install a category 2 autopilot in Caravelle. That means that you could get to the lowest minimums. Category 2 minimums are 20 meters of altitude and 400 meters of visibility. Category 3 is 100 meters of visibility. When he notified Finnair, we immediately went there to investigate the matter. There we met engineer Archibald, the technical director, a very smart guy. He brought us to Toulouse where the first Caravelle approaches were flown with all the channels activated, sideways, altitude and speed. The factory test pilot, Guignard, asked us to join on these flights. It was fun to watch when we approached the glide slope in level flight using the localizer beam. The glide mode switched on, we lowered the gear and so on. The speed control worked, the throttle levers were constantly moving. When we got lower and the glide started to look steep, the speedometer always made the glide shallower, otherwise it would get much too steep. The plane made a very beautiful landing and closed the throttles.

So, we were thrilled about the autopilot and at home we told that it was a pretty nifty gadget. Later we received Caravelle tens with more powerful engines and thrust reversers. "Steam-Caravelles" were given back and we started flying "tens" for which we received these new counters, autopilots. We didn't buy the landing flare box at all. We were satisfied that we could get to normal medium, two hundred feet and from there land normally.

But we had one of those landing flare boxes, in technical department. When we had flown this Caravelle for a while and seen that it controls the plane by itself making very nice approaches we invited 10 reporters to a flight. We flew to Oulu, which had the best ILS in Finland at that time and switched the landing box on. Karhila, Maunula and I were the pilots and we also had a factory test pilot with us. We made three approaches to Oulu airport with ILS and they were all very good. Maunula said that with manual control the touchdown point had never been so accurately at the same spot. When we crossed the threshold, the autopilot closed the throttles and the plane touched down. And it did that beautifully. Then someone got an idea that we should ask about what kind autopilots were used elsewhere. I went with Jussi Leiviskä to ECAC, European Civil Aviation Conference. The chief of technical department, Kalle Temmes, took me with him to Paris. They were discussing these automatic landing systems there. Our opinion was that the landing minimums could be lowered. I don't remember who was the representative of English authorities, but he opposed us strongly. The discussion went nowhere.

We discussed with Jussi Leiviskä that we should go and meet those English aviation authorities, experts. We went to London. We went to a hall where the speaker had a tall platform and there were many rows of benches. Six or seven gray-haired guys in their eighties marched in with stacks of books. We didn't get any wiser in that meeting.

After that we went to BA:s radio department to see the autopilots and radars. Jussi was kind a of a freak and when we got out of there he said: "My god those radio guys had fine instruments. The fanciest tool was a steam hammer."

There was an autopilot factory nearby and next we went to visit that. When Jussi asked them to open one autopilot so that we could see what was inside, we found a huge number of cogwheels. We knew that newer ones had none, they were fully electronic.

Jussi asked: "How can you keep this thing operational with all those cogwheels?" -"Well, that's no problem. There's a clock factory nearby, so we can get all the cogwheels we need.

Then I got to know an English official called Derek Helmor who later also visited Finland a couple of times. In one meeting he explained that they had not had the equipment ready when we started to talk about category 2 traffic. They could not comply and did not want us to know. Well, after that we worked a lot with Helmor and got the lower minimums.
 

Then I could tell something about inertia. In the summer of 1966 there was an important America-conference of western airlines in Otaniemi. This time Leiviskä was one of the organizers. A guy called Mr. Partrich was representing his factory in the conference and called the flight department asking if we could negotiate. Our chief pilot said: "Kille, why don't you go to both." Partrich told that Sperry was building an inertial navigator, which would fit into an airplane. Inertial navigators had previously been built for US Navy, for submarines navigating under the polar ice cap. That device was awfully big. Now the factory had smaller devices, which would fit to an airplane. Puhakka and I went to Sperry factory to see these devices. They wouldn't show us much, but they told us that two of them would fit to a DC-8. We agreed that we would put in a reservation, but we would wait for FAA approval of reliability and accuracy. We would buy the inertia if it was approved.

Pan Am had made a conditional reservation too, and we thought that we could also jump on board but we would not pay anything yet. We negotiated with the chief of Pan Am's navigational department and he told us about the pros and cons of the device. In the end the factory notified us that they had not got the FAA approval and that Pan Am had withdrawn their order. They asked if we would like to retract our order too. I felt that it was an honest move from the factory and we told them that we would pull out too. It was quite a contraption too, if you could only fit two of them to a plane.

Then I called Reynolds, the chief of Pan Am's navigational department, again and asked for other vendors. There was a firm called AC Spark Plugs in Santa Monica. The name later changed to AC electronics. They had also started designing an inertial navigator named Carousel, because the gyroscopes and acceleration sensors were rotating at a certain speed. The gyroscopes and acceleration sensors were fitted on a rotating disc. World co-ordinate system was stored in a computer. We examined the thing and they told us about the flight test results and so on. Then we heard from somewhere that there was also another company, Litton, making inertial navigators. It was right beside the first factory we visited. Jussi and I visited that place a couple of times too, but we were a bit late. They were talking more about AC's Carousel than Litton's navigator - all bad of course. Typical American sales pitch, bad-mouthing the competitor's product in every turn. Litton's system also seemed inferior to AC's and that's what I told Finland. We should buy AC's product.

Well, we could buy them if we had the money. They cost 0.000 a piece. Jussi and I sent a lot of memos and calculations to head office, to Korhonen who was the CEO at that time. Of course we talked only about AC, that we should buy their inertial navigator. Praising the inertial navigator finally took us to a point where Korhonen called us to head office. Korhonen was sitting on the other side of the table with our technical director, Stude, and the head of flight operations, Puhakka. I was sitting on the other side with Leiviskä. We discussed the matter and kept praising the inertial navigator.

Well, then we talked about other matters and Korhonen lit a little cigar, took a couple of breaths and said that we would take Loran C. I could not hold my mouth shut and told him: "That's too bad, because it will be a big mistake. The future is in inertial navigation." Korhonen took the cigar in his hand, looked me straight in the eye and asked if that was really true. I said I was positive. After that Korhonen said that we would buy the inertial navigator.

We had to fly one hundred flights across the Atlantic ocean with navigator on board. After that we got the official approval that this device alone would be sufficient for crossing the Atlantic. The only time we had to deviate from the direction inertia gave us was when we flew from west to east. The navigator said that I should turn right 10 degrees, because we were heading to the wrong approach corridor. I turned 10 degrees and after that the radar controller asked why we had turned, because the previous heading had been right. The human navigator wasn't exactly accurate but the inertial navigator was just right. The inertial navigator worked according to a principle that when it knew the true speed, it used the acceleration sensor data calculate the ground speed. It also measured the drift angle and we got the wind direction, speed and the time to next waypoint, which could be located anywhere in the world. You could enter the starting point and nine waypoints. It stored the waypoints in numerical order with fine, precise manner and if you did not enter additional waypoints it turned back to point one, turned 180 degrees.

Inertia also solves the wind drift trigonometry. The device gets the steering heading and sees what the true heading is and calculates the wind drift from that. Inertial navigator does all the navigation calculations. The waypoint can't be just anywhere. The distance can't be more than half of the circumference of the globe. Otherwise the device won't know which way to go around the globe. When we had time to play with it, we measured the circumference of the globe at the equator and then from pole to pole. The thing showed that the earth is a little flat at the poles. Damn, it's an accurate gadget.

Once we were flying west. We had gotten the approval for the inertia and we were flying without a navigator. We crossed the coast at Ireland and there was a southward jet stream above the ocean that came from the direction of the southern point of Greenland. Then it made an 180 turn to the left and went back north. It was a strong stream. It was fun to watch a Swissair plane which was about three minutes ahead of us. It's contrail started to drift north when it flew to the northward jet stream. Then their navigator of course calculated a correction but he overcorrected. Their contrail started to come back south, went over us and to the south as far as we could see. Then they flew to the other jetstream, the one coming from the north. They crossed the coast of USA 15 minutes behind us. That's how much their zigzagging cost them.

We installed three independent inertias to all our DC-8s. Even though they were 0000 each. It was a multi-million dollar deal. We had three systems when we flew charters and routes around the world. There were no spare parts available if something got broken and the company could not store spare parts worth 0000 in every airport. So, we installed three systems to every plane. When we left home, all three had to be operational and when we started for home we had to have two operational navigators. We were allowed to fly home with just one system if one got broken during the flight. This was our philosophy behind the installation of three systems.

Inertia worked beautifully, there were only minor faults and problems. It was a great system. Nowadays they don't need to punch in coordinates for every waypoint like we had to. MD-11 has a computer, which contains all the waypoints in the world. When planning a route you just have to punch in the waypoint identifiers. Inertia knows the coordinates and plans the route automatically. But we had it good too, it was a good system and after I retired to National Board of Aviation the boys started to fly a lot of cargo flights in the east. They had long routes and flights over the ocean. They would have been in trouble if they didn't have inertia where to input all waypoints.

Thank you gentlemen, for listening me.
 

Jarl "Kille" Arnkil proofread the notes from his lecture in Helsinki, November 2002.

- When you were in Nurmoila, you had guys from TLeLv 12 and 32 as neighbors. So, question number one:
- Nobody really knew what the other squadrons were doing even when they were stationed at the same airfield. Did you have so little co-operation or were you so tired after the battles that you just went to bed?
- Then question number two: At what point Curtiss started to get too old compared to enemy planes?

Well, weaknesses started to kind of appear very soon. When we came to Nurmoila, we did OK for a while. We had air superiority at the Karelian Isthmus, since we had only I-16s and I153s as adversaries. But when they started to send in faster planes equipped with cannons, Curtiss had a disadvantage. And we didn't have many discussions with the men of 12. squadron, although we met them often since we were occupying the same lot.

- I've seen pictures of Curtisses escorting Frans-Kalles (Fokkers) to reconnaissance missions.

They were aerial spotting missions for artillery fire direction. They were demanding missions.
 

About reconnaissance and visibility from the air, related to the chapter "Covering the Pajari division".

- Could you always see ground targets or was it by chance?
You could generally see them, of course it was difficult to see them in a forest, but when they using a road or driving in a field, they were easily seen.

- When we asked if tanks could be seen from the air and so on, in this part "make some low passes there and if you see a Finnish-looking guy coming out of the bushes with a pistol holster in his belt", could you really see that well from air?
Yes, if you were low enough.
During the attack phase of -41 we were asked if we knew where the frontline was, since we don't know it here. We answered that we look at the soldiers. If they take cover, they are russkies, but if they wave their hats they are Finnish. That's how we know where the frontline is.

I was in Lahti telling this story and the chairman of local veterans came to sit by me. He was an artillery man, but he knows my daughter and son in law well. When I was telling about Vuosalmi, he mentioned just that. He had been in Vuosalmi and he told that when Kuhlmey's bombers came behind our lines, the guys first jumped in their foxholes. Then they noticed that they went over and started to drop bombs to the other side. Everybody got out of their foxholes and started throwing their hats in the air saying "Goddamn, we're gonna win this war!" They had cardboard whistles in the tails of the bombs and they made an infernal whistle when they fell. They said they got goose bumps when they heard that.
 

- About the tracers. Did they have color differences, for example between our own, Finnish and Russian planes? Were there different colors or something like that?
No, they were all equally bright.
-So you couldn't see any different colors?
No.

-Did the Russian and Finnish planes use tracers equally often?
Yes. It's exciting when ack shoots for example with 20 mm. The tracer seems to be coming directly at your eye, but there (Arnkil gestures how close) it goes by. It feels like it's going to hit you in the face. Luckily they always missed.

- How about airplanes?
Yes, Russians used tracers too. Just as much as we did.
But they had a lot of explosive bullets. We took explosive ammo from IL-2 belts to our use. I don't know if they were allowed, but...
- Exploding bullets to own use, to own airplane MGs?
Yes.

Questions about aim and synchronization of Curtiss / Messerschmitt weapons and ammo

- In simulators firing own cannon is modeled so that Messerschmitt or other planes with MG:s in the field of vision have these huge distracting muzzle flashes. When you fired, could you see the muzzle flashes?
You could see the flashes if the day was dark.
- But it wasn't distracting in any way?
No.
- So, it was a small flame in front. We have complained about this, since we have asked this from many other pilots too and everyone says the same. Simulators have to have ad-man features, a lot of flicker and bright colors, bangs and huge muzzle flashes in the nose when firing.

- When you hit an enemy plane, could you see the hits because parts started to fall off or could you see it otherwise?
You could see the bullets going in. Of course debris started fly too. Kössi Karhila was assigned as a flight commander in Fighter Squadron 24 when he was a reserve Lieutenant - a high position for a young man. He was reporting to Joppe Karhunen when the boss of mechanics came in and told that a Messerschmitt with wing cannons had came in and asked if they should be removed. Joppe said that they should. Kössi said: "Excuse me Major, sir, could I have the plane for myself? I'd like a plane with wing cannons." "Damn, it's slow and cumbersome." "Well, at least the guys can keep up with me, I won't be able to leave them behind." Then Kössi told: "I have been out there many times and when I have pulled the trigger, nothing has happened." He had 4 to 5 occasions when all guns jammed. "OK, keep the cannons then." Kössi told that when he had got an IL-2 into sights and fired the first time, the shells went under the target. Then he corrected a little and fired again "Goddamn, pieces of that plane flew all around the sky when fired upon with three cannons." It was an effective machine.

- What was the convergence distance of the weapons?
I don't know.
- Was it possible to adjust the distance in Curtiss?
To about 300 meters. Yes, adjustments were made.

- Do you remember at all what kind of ammo was in Curtiss belts? Tracers and explosive bullets taken from Russians?
It was mainly tracers and APs. And an explosive bullet every now and then.
- Do you remember the ratio of different types?
No, I don't remember. There was always a tracer after certain number of regular bullets. I can't recollect how often. Armorers handled that part.

Training against dissimilar aircraft

- Did you ever try air combat against each other?
Yes, we did that ourselves.
- How about against different plane types? Or was it always against similar plane?
When I was acting as a trainer in Vesivehmaa for a few months, we often had Pyry as a target aircraft and another Pyry engaged. Sometimes we had a Viima or something else. Rehearsed attacks from different directions. But we had no enemy fighters or different types.
- How would Curtiss have handled against a Messerschmitt or for example Brewster?
It' wouldn't have made out against them. Well, Brewster was about the same, but Messerschmitt was clearly superior.
- It (Me 109 G) didn't turn as well (as the Curtiss).
True.
- But the Curtiss would have just been trying to run, escape?
That's right.
(Editor's note: fixed the wording in the translation to find better feeling for the original discussion. Mr. Arnkil indicated, that the Curtiss would have been no match against the Messerschmitt in a fight. Take notice, that mr. Arnkil's comparison is for the G model 109, which was the only one in use by FiAF.)
 

- Discussing about Curtiss Hawk's flying characteristics and control faults.
No, Curtiss had no control faults. It was like Brewster and other planes with a wide wing. They don't surprise you.
- How did it warn before it departed controlled flight?
It doesn't depart, so it doesn't warn either.
- It didn't shake or anything?
Of course if you pulled it to an impossible angle it started to shake, but nobody pulls that hard.
- You automatically knew not pull too hard?
FR (Fokker D.XXI) was like that. I remember an incident from FR course in Joroinen at spring of 1940. We were doing aerobatics. I don't remember who it was from our class who was doing a loop and went into a spin, lost control. He tried again and pulled even harder. Then he landed and said: "Goddamnit, I can't get that loop done." Someone then taught him not to pull so hard, to take it easier. And as I already told, Myrsky was a strange plane. We got them to Pori after the war and they were like russian planes crafted from birch wood. They easily dipped a wing - right wing - while landing and hit it to the runway. 13th squadron fellows started to do land with lot of speed, on main gear with the tailwheel high. Our squadron commander watched them for a while and then told that each of us should go and do five landings - all on three points. None of us flipped the plane. When you brought it down with just the right speed it didn't dip it's wing. But even when these guys landed with high speed, when the speed started to bleed it dipped.
- When landing on three points, did you use flare-out?
Yes, we did.

It was a poor plane technically, Myrsky. It was built many times, redesigned and redesigned. The project went on for many years, went to wastebasket and then was taken out again. It was nearly impossible to get engines at that time. We had gotten some from Sweden but then they wouldn't give any more. Germans ran out of engines themselves. It had a plywood wing. When Eriö made a bit tighter turn, all the nails popped up. After landing the mechanics always tapped the nails back in. Captain Ikonen crashed to the south side of the field, into a bog. He came straight down after some aerobatics. The plane went so deep into the swamp that he was buried there. The plane was never lifted, only some small pieces came up. It went down several meters.
- Was this the incident where the tail fluttered?
The plane lost an aileron. It came off. It was a structural fault. You would think that when you connect an aileron to the wing strut then hinge would be connected like this. But it was this way. The pivot was outward so that when the axle bed bent a little, the brackets came out of the loop. One of the ailerons came off. There were several incidents like that and someone said that it was an impossible plane to bale out of. You could not get out. Even if it was inverted. There was something in the cabin that prevented you from baling out. One of the factory design engineers visited Pilvenveikot once and told us about Myrsky. I told him about these incidents and also said there was no point in bringing planes with pea-shooter weapons to the squadrons just before the interim peace when the others were shooting back with cannons. They could not hold out against the enemy. They flew just a few combat sorties.

Simulator related questions about the planes and their characteristics

- How about Curtiss? Could you pull two loops in a row without losing altitude?
I never tried that.
- What do you think, would it be possible
I think it's possible. You could gain pretty much altitude in the second pull-up. Pull in some more altitude and let the speed bleed down a little more.
- You could gain that much speed coming down for the first time...
Yes, you gain speed there, so I think it's possible.
- In WW2OL the model is such that you can pull continuous loops even with a Blenheim. Tens of loops in a row. That's totally wrong.

- This is why we're asking about Hawk, so that we could maybe get the flight model correct, because it's really annoying that Hawk is so hard to keep in control. So how hard, I think you told us over the phone that you could pull it as hard as you could and it stayed in control...
Just as hard as your eyes could take.
- Can you remember how many Gs there were or how much speed did you have?
I don't know... You need several Gs before you start to lose vision. But you don't like to pull so hard that you start to lose vision. We didn't have G-suits. Just flight overalls.

- Do you have any recollections about Curtiss minimum and maximum speeds? When did it start to misbehave?
I can't remember anymore.
- It was really well-behaving in most situations?
Yes, it was.
 

- People around the world are interested in Curtiss and they have sent questions to ask you. If we take it from the top:

- How did Curtiss do against different Russian planes?
Well, in the Karelian isthmus we flew against I-16s and I-153s and we did quite well. There were no IL-2s or Pe-2s at that time. But like in there, it was tough to shoot down an IL-2, because the pilot and gunner sat like in a bath tub with a damn thick armor. Pe-2 was a bit too slick. Pe-2 flew many times over the western bank of Aunus isthmus. I don't know where they flew those reconnaissance flights. They kind of came down over the west bank, following the shoreline of lake Ladoga. We caught some of them there when we happened to be around at the right time. But if you started to chase them, you couldn't catch them.
- It was that much faster?
Yes.
- Then against these newer fighters?
Well, they were... I didn't fly anymore because I was an intelligence officer. But when we encountered Airacobras, La-5s and so on, we were in trouble. Like in that story, Colonel Rekola had agreed with 6 AK that we should avoid dogfights so that we could help the ground forces with reconnaissance flights. So that we would not waste the last Curtisses we had.
- Not necessarily related to Curtiss, do you remember which was considered most dangerous opponent, Airacobra or Lagg?
My opinion is that Airacobra was more dangerous.
- On what basis?
It had a bigger cannon, I think it had a 37 mm cannon and it was pretty fast.

- Did you use snap roll as a defensive maneuver? I myself think that you should not get yourself into a situation where that kind of maneuver would be needed...
I remember Kössi Karhila telling about that. He was up in a Messerschmitt and he had thought beforehand how he would evade if someone came... Right foot down and stick to the right front corner and flip like that. Once he was flying and noticed a propeller spinner really close. He maneuvered at the last second. First bullet went through the wing. The russkie was just firing. He told that he had been really close. The maneuver was so fast that he could get out of way.

- How should you dogfight with a Curtiss? What kind of maneuvers did you use?
For example in Suursaari, where we had a lot of Russians going around in a Spanish circle, we could get them by diving after a plane and then pulling up again. Then attacked from above again. We chased the last plane, a Tsaika, with Manu Fräntilä. That guy either had a really flexible neck or he was sitting backwards in the cockpit. He was like an owl. Whenever we got him in our sights he kicked the plane to the side. We should have attacked from below, but he was hugging the treetops, so we couldn't get him from there. We got him in the end anyway.
- It was normal pendulum (zoom&boom) tactics then?
Normal pendulum, yes.

- So, Curtiss pilots didn't develop any own tactics adapted specifically to that plane type?
Guys had to fight quite fierce dogfights with it too. Sometimes the Russians had really superior numbers. Now I remember one time when I was somewhere there - more and more Russian fighters came in from near Lotinanpelto. I think we had five or six planes in the air and they started to call for help, because the density of Russian planes started to become too high. But we bagged that situation too. They were in a furball. And once someone even had a dogfight against some Lagg above our airfield.
- You mentioned that it could turn well. How fast was the roll?
Yes, it was...
- So you could change directions quickly?
It was quite agile. Very pleasant to fly.
- How about the armor in Curtiss? Did it have a back plate?
It only had a back plate.
- Was it standard equipment from the beginning or were they installed later?
I think it was standard equipment. FR (Fokker D.XXI) didn't have a back plate. It was installed in Tampere (State Aircraft Factory) and then the fixed head plate was added. The armor consisted of two pieces and we lost one pilot during training in Siikakangas. He was doing aerobatics and lost control while doing a loop - or immelmann - at high altitude and crashed into a lakelet. We wondered what the hell happened, because he was pretty high when he lost control. When the war began, we installed the machine guns and started to adjust them. The tail wheel was lifted on a barrel and the weapons were adjusted. I don't remember who it was, it might have been the squadron commander himself, who tried to raise the seat but it wouldn't move. The back plate should have risen in front of the head plate, but it didn't. It jammed against it. We inspected the problem and noticed that the seat brackets had almost broken off. That's when we realized what had happened to the unfortunate pilot. His seat fell on the control cables when he was pulling an immelmann. It was an uncontrollable situation. The control cables ran beneath the seat. The airplane factory had not noticed that when you add armor to the seat, you also add quite a lot of weight and the brackets should have been strengthened too. I think we had many similar accidents.

- How rugged was Hawk considered by the pilots, in respect of structure stress or damage endurance?
I felt it was a sturdy plane. The worst spot was the gas tank behind your back. You didn't want any bullets to hit that.
- It wasn't protected? It wasn't self sealing?
No, it wasn't. Pretty big tank right behind your back.
- Were self sealing tanks then later installed by the Finns?
No. That kind of advanced contraptions were not installed in these planes. They remained as they were received from Germany. We only got the bigger guns, 12,7 mm.
- There is a rubbered Curtiss gas tank in Hallinportti aviation museum.
It's possible.
- How about the engine? How good was the engine durability and how well was it liked?
We had two kinds of engines, Mercurys and Wasps. Mercury had a little more power than Wasp. I considered Mercury better, but there were sow few planes equipped with Mercury that they wore out quickly. In the end all the engines were Wasps.
- Kössi Karhila said, that with Mercury engine Curtiss was as good as Brewster
True. It was a completely different machine, but we ran out of engines. The fifteen planes which we retrieved in the summer of -43 all had Wasps. They were in crates. The Americans had sent them to France and they were found from some harbor in their packing crates when Germany occupied rest of France. The first planes we got came from Norway. America had sent them to Norwegians as military aid. When the Germans invaded Norway, they gave the planes to us.

- How good was the visibility from the cockpit of Curtiss
Extremely good.
- Behind?
Well, if you could turn your head backwards, you could see. The canopy was quite tall. - It had sliding windows, didn't it?
And the visibility forward was very good. The cockpit was spacious. It wasn't cramped like for example in Messerschmitt and Fiat. A gentleman's plane. I remember that when Joensuu Jimmy flew Fiat, he had to steer with his left hand and handle the throttle with right. He was two meters (6 ft) tall. He had his head against the top of the canopy. A guy that big wouldn't have gotten in the air force after the war. He exceeded all size limits.

- Did the plane have a heating system?
No.
- So you just got cold when flying high?
We put more clothes on.

- When the heavy machine guns were installed, were any other changes made? The radios were changed, weren't they?
Radios, they originally had no radios, when they were brought in from Germany I mean.
- Do you remember any other changes? Were they altered in any way?
No.
- About the radio, could you listen the frequencies used by bombers and other squadrons?
No, it had only one frequency. We could talk to each other. But sometimes it happened that two squadrons used the same cycle. For example there was a group in the air in Tiiksjärvi and someone over Aunus yelled: "Check six, someone's coming!" everyone broke over Tiiksjärvi too. "Who's coming?" But you couldn't change the frequency.

- I think it was Pokela who mentioned that the Germans, Finns and Russians often used same or close frequencies. Sometimes all babbled on the same frequency. In the battle of Tali-Ihantala there was a schwarm of Messerschmitts and the radio congested of Finnish and Russian babble. Then also the Germans joined the same cycle. After that it was impossible to understand anything said over the radio. Did you experience this?
Yes, I did, especially if we were close to each other. You could overhear all transmitters.
- How about the radio conversation during aerial combat, how much did you use the radio?
You didn't have time to talk much.
- Did you have to reach somewhere to press radio tangent or was it somewhere near?
If I remember correctly, it was in the throttle lever.

- Then about the armament. You mentioned that the weapons were synchronized to 300 meters. How effective were the original six smaller guns?
They had a good effect. The bullets continue flying after they cross, the pattern becomes smaller first. 300 meters was the synchronization distance we used in Fokker. It had only fuselage guns. It's possible that those wing guns were dispersed a little.
- How many bursts or how long burst did it take to clearly damage or destroy an enemy plane?
We usually fired short bursts. It's hard to say, it also depends on what tracers show, how well you hit. But usually long bursts are avoided to keep the guns functional.

- You shot down a couple of planes in Suursaari battle. How did these kills happen? In what kind of situation?
Well, the other one was the last plane that we were chasing with Manu Fräntilä. The other I shot down when I pulled up over Pajari, climbed through the clouds and heard Euramo calling that there were planes coming in from south. When I got on top of the clouds, one plane popped out of the clouds right in front of me. I didn't need to look for it. I probably hit the cockpit. He fell immediately.

- Can you give any examples about what happened to enemy planes when they were fired upon and hit? You already told about hitting the cockpit, that the plane fell immediately?
I think the pilot was killed immediately, at least it looked like it hit that way. The nose went down and the plane disappeared in the cloud.
- Any other occasions where the hit wasn't that lethal?
Fräntilä shot down the last I-153 that we chased together. Fräntilä shot it down and then we got out of there.

- How about the heavy machine guns that were installed in the nose, they were especially effective in ground attacks, weren't they? How were they in other situations, how much did they add to the firepower?
They did boost the firepower, for example when firing at truck columns, trains etc. A train engine stopped very quickly with the 12,7.

- Russian planes were pretty well armored against rear attacks already in the beginning of the continuation war. What kind of effect did this armor have?
You had to attack from such an angle that you could hit the fuel tank or the engine. I never shot down any bombers, but when you attack a bomber formation you first have to shoot the tail gunner before you can get close. Otherwise he would shoot in from the side of your plane. You first have to kill the tail gunner from further away and then do like the Fokkers in the winter war. Sarvanto shot down six bombers in minutes. Picked them off from a formation using just that tactic. Kill the tail gunner first and then shoot at the engines. One plane escaped him but Pelle Sovellus later shot that one down.
- What kind of difference did the light and heavy machine guns have against the armor of an enemy plane.
12,7 was more powerful, of course. Rifle caliber didn't have much effect.

- More about the weapons, how reliable were Hawk's guns?
They were pretty reliable. Of course it happened time to time that the guns wouldn't work, but I think that those occasions were quite rare.

- We talked about the cockpit visibility and the visibility forward was good and you could see behind you too, but how tight were you strapped in the seat?
We were strapped in pretty tightly, of course. When you are young you can still turn your head.
- So even the shoulders were locked?
Yes. Now when driving a car I can notice that my head doesn't turn that well anymore. I have to use the mirrors for everything.
- This is a recurring question with all simulators. How well you could see behind and how tight are the pilots strapped in, could you turn like this or is your back glued to the seat all the time.
Of course you could move a little. But like they said in civil aviation too, it's better that the pilots are strapped in than floating around the cockpit.
 

- You have experience with various plane types? At least Pyry, Fokker, Curtiss and then different trainers from your time in the air force. From civil aviation Caravelles and Convairs.
I started with a Smolik, then with Stieglitz and Viima. When we were cadets we started to fly Jupiter Aero and other little bigger and heavier planes. In Parola during the springtime of winter war we drove an I-16 and then there was a Kotka and some other types. The equipment was pretty mixed. After that I flew Tuiskus, then Fokker and after that Curtiss.

In civil aviation I started with DC-3s and also flew a few flights with Ju-52 tri-engine. In addition to these types I flew three Russian types: Jak-42 and 72, then the Tupolev 134. And what was that type that I tested in England with Puhakka. It was a strange plane. It had a steering wheel and when you wanted to bank it, the wheel didn't turn. I wondered what the hell was wrong until someone pointed down. Some cunning engineer had put a hinge there. So you turned it like this. Very British. It moved in this direction but the bank was like this.

Joystick control.

I remember when we were with Olli Puhakka in some meeting during "Caravelle time". Concorde was already on the drawing board back then. Turcat, chief test pilot, was participating the project already during the planning phase. He once came to our table for morning coffee with us mortals. He asked about the controls, he had flown like this and that, but what if we would just put in a thing called Joystick, would it be handier? We thought about it for awhile and came to a conclusion that it would be good. It was flown with a little stick like that.
 

- How was I-16 to fly?
It wasn't that bad, but landing was a bit tricky. I don't know why, maybe it was our fault coming in too low. Of course we used a lot of throttle then. I remember when we flew the 16 in Parola. It was a small airfield. My cadet mate Strömberg was making an approach and he was gliding in low. He noticed that the runway would not be long enough and went around. Then he made another attempt... He tried four times and each time he came in lower over the trees. Then flight master Jääskeläinen came and said that his next attempt would end in a bonfire. There was a field at the end of the runway and we had had a bonfire there. He said that the plane would go into the old bonfire and that's exactly what happened. The plane turned upside down on top of the ash pile.

I don't know if the approaches should have been flown differently, but that's what the Russians did even with airliners. They come in really low with a lot of power, like that Tupolev 134. I got all sweaty just looking at what they did.

- How did the I-16 perform?
The fuselage was quite short, so it was fidgety of course. It didn't really "swim". You had to steer it all the time.
- If you had flown combat missions with it, how would've it been compared to our planes?
Compared to Curtiss, it was poor.
- What was the worst thing
The overall behavior, it felt like you had to force it to fly.
 

About accidents

Martti Karila, my classmate from Kauhava. We were starting some planes and if I hadn't been able to grab his arm and yank him away a spinning propeller would have hit him.

- A Finnish general died in the 60s or 70s...

He was my classmate, Pöyhönen. He walked into a tail rotor of a helicopter. He visited in Norway and it might have been the first time he was in a helicopter. When he got off the copter he went to the wrong direction and walked straight into the tail rotor. He didn't notice it at all. He would have become the commander in chief for sure... He was a really smart guy.

There were 96 of us in the cadet course and only 11 are living now. 17 of us were pilots and only three are alive. Well... so many have gone. There is a funeral of some friend every other Saturday or Friday. The chairman of veterans' association always brings a garland.

About one thousand veterans die every month nationwide, quite a number... That's a division in a year. Division strength was a bit more or less.